Emerging Women

Sunday, August 27, 2006

Emerging Women

The Truth Project
Has anyone heard about this? It's Focus on the Family's latest gig. I checked out their website thetruthproject.com and here's just a sampling:

"The Truth Project begins by defining truth as "that which corresponds to reality." This absolute and eternal truth, at the heart of Jesus' mission on earth, continues to be the focal point of the Cosmic Battle in our own time."

Well, ladies, I guess the battle lines are being drawn. Apparently, if I don't accept as truth what these men have defined it as then I am just not in touch with reality. (Incidentally, the majority of whom are white and in their 50-60's--nary a woman in the group--guess women just don't know truth if it smacked them in the face.)

You know what my reality in evangelical world has been? It's been all about people who cared far more about their image and whether or not they are "in" with God--everyone else can go to hell--literally--than how they treat others. I have seen the ugliest side of humanity in the church.

You know what my reality in the real world has been? Most (I would say somewhere above 90%) of the people I have known outside the church would never dream of behaving the way most Christians do. So, unfortunately, I would say to the truth project people--the truth for me (if it does, indeed, correspond with reality) is that people without God are a heck of a lot nicer than those who claim to be his followers.

Of course, there was a dig or two for postmodernism and any idiot (I'm sure in their opinion) who comes close to embracing it. And you know what else bugged me??? The very last thing on their list of tenants, or whatever, is the whole love-your-neighbor thing. Seemed like an afterthought to me and something to neatly tie up the package. For only $119 you can buy the truth (a deal at $149 for a couple). If we wanted the poor of this world to know the real truth--God loves them--think of how much truth for them could be bought at $119 a pop!

just my two cents

Labels: Theology

posted by Anonymous at 12:53 AM

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21 Comments:

At 8/27/2006 09:48:00 AM, Unknown

Many of my family members "worship and follow" Focus on the Family. They own books get the newsletters, and listen to anything connected to Focus on the Family. Their husbands are still "the head of their households" (or at least that's what they "say"). They boycott, draw firm lines, and are so excited when they find out that one of their neighbors or someone they meet is a "Christian". This "truth" thing I am getting worn on. Somehow, what is "absolute truth" starts stretching and stretching longer and longer. Did others long ago spend so much time "focusing on Truth" and debating what was Truth?
I agree with the points made here. It sounds like the Focus on the Family white men are the lucky one's God blessed with "the Truth". Not women, the poor, other ethnic backgrounds etc.
What amazes me, is in the Bible it "seems" like Christ followers were more "one" than present day. Now the majority of Christ followers are being separated "out" through this "Truth Project" and many other ideas. So based on the "Truth" that I received, ie that "my" ticket is punched to Heaven and I can't "lose" my salvation, I'm ok if "my truth" doesn't match theirs anymore, right? Just want to make sure! Don't want to lose my ticket! :)
At 8/27/2006 09:49:00 AM, kpjara

I think I'll take your bargain 'two cents' and chew on that before I invest my own $119 or $149 per couple for someone elses IDEAL and IDEA of truth. Absolute Truth is far too large for any of us to put into any document concisely.

Thanks for putting this out here.
At 8/27/2006 10:04:00 AM, Unknown

Sorry had to comment futher! The following is pulled from the "reality section of the Truth project."

Our postmodern world is pulling each individual into a vacuum of self-centeredness, whispering, "It’s all about you." It’s all about your own pleasure, peace, prosperity, and comfort. It’s all about what you think. It’s all about your own self-actualization, your individual pursuit. It reminds me of the first lie that mankind heard in the garden: "You will be like God!" It is all about us, isn’t it?

I assume this is about all human kind and certainly hope it is not geared at the "emerging" beliefs. From what I have seen and received within 'emerging' beliefs are "less" focus on the individual, more receptivity to others and God, and "less" self-centering on individual pleasures, thoughts, etc. More views of a "we" and less on "I".
At 8/27/2006 01:43:00 PM, Julie

Sherri - great point with the Barna/FOF stuff. I've tried so many times to get people to see that the way questions are phrased and truth defined affects how people answer those questions. But most evangelicals can't see past the 9% and its push to take back America for Jesus whateverness...

I find it really amusing that FOF is using the truth being "what corresponds to reality" definition. That language has come out of discussions with postmoderns who question the terminology of absolute truth. But FOF seems to be using it to apply to anything they want to believe in - even the things that require belief and are results of our subjective perception of said reality. Their using the lingo, but not really understanding the message. But then again that's the issue with most critiques of postmodernism - they don't take the time to actually understand what the postmoderns are talking about. They just impose their perceptions of things onto the postmoderns and hence condemn them for things they don't even believe.
At 8/27/2006 08:27:00 PM, Sarcastic Lutheran

I grew up in a fundamentalist home in Colorado Springs (where I now affectionatly refer to as the "Belly of the Beast") Look where it got me - a heavily tattooed, thouroughly post-modern, radically inclusive, brash Lutheran chick!
Thanks be to God.
At 8/27/2006 11:07:00 PM, Mike Clawson

Just to provide some philosophical background (and Wikipedia links) for you all: What FotF is preaching is what philosophers call the correspondence theory of truth. It is a typically Modern conception of truth and makes all kinds of arrogant assumptions about the degree to which we finite and fallen human beings can actually know reality.

A more postmodern theory of truth (and one that I happen to prefer) is the coherence theory of truth. I'll warn you though, unless you have some background in philosophy you'll probably find these articles rather dense.
At 8/27/2006 11:10:00 PM, Sue Densmore

OK - this will be my third post on this excellent blog, and this time I might get myself into a little trouble.

All I ask is that you all don't shoot me, and take anything I raise as a sincere question, OK? If you can't do that, just skip over me...

First, I will say this - I have often called Dr. Dobson a rabble rouser, and I have not always had the highest opinion of those I have met who blindly follow him, taking everything he says for granted.

HOWEVER, (here is where the touble starts...)

I have not always found the "emergent" folks all that much better, and I will tell you why.

I think there are many of us post-modern folks who are very willing, and for good reason, to criticize the "modern" church. But I have NOT heard a heck of a lot in the way of suggestions for improvement.

Second, this post, and Michelle's follow-up comment, criticize FOF's truth project for being run by old white guys. But I saw the brochure for the Emergent Convention last year. Yeah...pretty much young white guys. Hmmm....even the post moderns can't find women - or even non-white men - to be speakers? Interesting...

Finally, Julie said that FOF did not take the time to understand what post-moderns said. Shall I assume that we are above reproach in this matter? Did someone actually get the full lesson texts and reads them?

Look, I don't necesarily disagree with panning the FOF "Truth" series. From the limited run I took at the web site, they for sure go outside what I would consider the essential truths of the faith. But I would be very interested in hearing what truths post-moderns think are the go-to-the-wall, fight-to-the-death truths of the Christian Faith. Is there somewhere I can find a list?
At 8/28/2006 12:34:00 AM, Unknown

Sue, I get your point, about the "emergent" men. I guess, for myself, even though I relate well with "emerging" thought I am trying to not reclassify myself with any specific "list" of truth's or denomination, titles etc. I am a Christ seeker and follower, beyond that, I really don't want to be classified. The women on this blog have had the same concerns overall about being misrepresented in Christian culture, and I for one, love being able to converse with the wonderful women here.
As for any kind of go-to-the-wall, fight-to-the-death truths within emergent, I haven't seen a list. I actually hope there isn't one. I for one don't think that is the point. The reason "emergent" appeals to me, is that there is belief's with receptiveness to change within those belief's. Respect of views, thoughts, diversity, and a heart to follow Jesus. No one is perfect, and neither is "emergent". I do see more openness to dialog, and receptivity, however, more so than in more traditional relms. Obviously, I have my perspective. This blog of "Emerging Women" has been encouraging, challenging, thoughtful, open, etc. My church, even though it is in transition to a more "emergent" sort of place, and has had hard moments, our leaders have been humble, encouraging, loving, great listener etc. I realize that not everyone's encounter with "emergent" ideas are as gracious.
At 8/28/2006 09:28:00 AM, Julie

Sue, thanks for bringing up the questions.

Your right, I didn't read the entire FOF thing. I was refering mostly to articles and books I have read and to my Christian experience of my first 25ish years of life. I'm fine with people disagreeing with the emerging church, I just wish they would understand us instead of brushing us off as people who don't believe in truth (read God) or people who would say anything to have sex with whoever we want (I honestly heard this). I've had family make assumptions about what I belive, and many people at our last church made assumptions based on thr false ideas spread by people like Dobson and Colson. At our church we were not even allowed to explain what we actualy believe - a connection with what people wrongly assumed emergent and postmodernism was all about was enough to ask us to leave our jobs.

as for the women and minority thing - it is a sore point. One that is in process of being changed (although not as quickly as some of us would like)

as for emergent and essentials of truth, I would recommend this article which is an interview Relevant magazine did with Tony Jones. Although I personally would classify it under the interviewer didn't really get what Tony was saying, but there is some interesting stuff in there about statements of faith.
At 8/28/2006 11:25:00 AM, Sue Densmore

Thanks for your responses everyone. Again, as I said in another comment, I guess by truth I meant the basic Christian faith, and that the Bible is our way to see how God has intervened, and how He calls us to act. Don't know if that is summed up very well!

Also, I am realizing that you all have had more "run-ins" with the traditionalists. (Is that the opposite of emergent?) I am getting a sense from the last couple of posts that some of the interaction others have had about the emergent movement have been more difficult.

A word of introduction might be in order. I am in southeastern NH, and my church would take the labels "charismatic" and "evangelical" in the best senses of those words.

However, charismatic means that ministry starts from spiritual gifts, so if a woman is gifted to preach then she should. I am on the preaching team at my church, in fact, and have preached on several occasions over the last five or so years, and am now part of the women's speaker directory of Vision New England. I say that not to advertise, just to give people reading some background so as to better understand where I am coming from.

We have a new senior pastor, just appointed, who was the associate pastor. He has no problem developing a team to preach. He does not feel the need to be in the pulpit every week. There are three women on this team of nine, and if another woman is gifted, and she has been part of our church for a time and is known by the elders, she would likely be welcomed onto the team, too. We place a high priority on small groups, so that true, intimate, Christian community can be fostered, and we are committed to service within and outside our community.

Given this, it sounds like my church could be described as emergent. It is a unique, healthy, vibrant place, and is the sole reason I have not moved closer to my job and, thus, commute 50 minutes each way to work.

Anyhow, maybe this explains why I get nervous when it seems as though people are throwing out the baby with the bathwater, you know?

I mean no disrespect! I look forward to learning from all of you as the conversations continue.

Now that I have said all that, maybe you can see why I would think and post the way I do.
At 8/28/2006 11:25:00 AM, Unknown

Thanks Julie, I read that article and the one with Brian McLaren. They are helpful. I am not as good expressing where my beliefs are at. The more I read and converse, the more comfortable I am with getting my thoughts from my brain to my mouth!
At 8/28/2006 11:28:00 AM, Sue Densmore

PS: I would love to come to the East Coast Gathering, but am a teacher, and marching band director, and school is in session. I did nto mean to gloss over that invitation...
At 8/28/2006 12:26:00 PM, Janice

Hi all,

I have tried to comment on this several times without much success.

To be honest, something is bothering me about this string of posts and some others I've been reading and I can't quite put my finger on it.

Something bothers me about the focus perhaps.

I say quit worrying about the 'opposition' (if one must see this as a 'battle' of fundies vs emerging or men vs women. establishment vs non...) and lets just continue working for 'the best' for women.

I don't know, as I said, I can't put it in words....I am challenged to determine what isS God's best for women and I just think 'worrying about' FOF isn't going to help me in my pursuit. I don't feel a need to compete with white men or any men, God created me as a woman for a purpose and if those men can't figure it out - their loss!

Is being on 'equal ground with men' the priority or issue?

I can't get ripped about how many men are on a panel (though I must admit I found that to be interesting in light of what I've read from emergent so far).

Just like truth wars, I don't see gender wars as something God wants me to take a stand on a hill for. I believe if we just move forward with being the 'best women' we can be, in conversation, God will bring about the unity or cohesion or shalom between genders as part of his kingdom plan.

I admit to being very new to emergent and the conversation, so maybe i"m way off base here. If so, please share with me your thoughts. I would like to understand where you (all) are coming from and also where we all are going.

I am planning on coming down in October now for sure. I look forward to meeting some of you there!

Janice
At 8/28/2006 01:19:00 PM, Unknown

Doxallo,
It may seem that a lot of worrying about the "opposition" is being done. I can see that. Just a little background, that will hopefully help. Venting occurs here. It's a safe place to do so. I don't think many of us like to "worry" about "opposition", unfortunately it's in our faces regularly.
I don't want to speak for her, so maybe she will comment more, but I know that the reason Sylvia checked this out and posted about it, was that The Truth Project was presented to one of her children.
For me, I have a young daughter and son. I love my family and am greatful that Christ was a part of my life. However, some of the things I was taught and they still believe within gender issues etc. were a great detriment to me personally. I want so much more for my kids in their relationship's with Christ and others. My family will be an on going influence in my children's lives. So ideas such as the Truth Project reach myself and my kids regularly. I don't want to "focus" on it and worry about it, but those things will always be there.
Sometimes, rocking the boat a little is what is needed to create awareness. The great thing is here if it appears a certain way, we can comment, think, correct, explain, etc. and learn and grow from each other.
For me I agree that we should be the best women we can be, and sometimes not "fighting the gender battle" may be needed. I do think however, that God can use strong female voices to encourage his unity. I am a big both/and person, not an either/or person.
Here, I may vent more, because within my family and many of my friends I can't do that. I would get attacked left and right for my thoughts and views. I don't know if that helps, but please keep the comments coming.
At 8/28/2006 03:25:00 PM, Janice

Michelle and 'from the margins' -

HI!

I appreciate your comments. Perhaps I just needed to 'vent' as well.
;-)

I just read a post on emergent village in the emerging women thread - by Trudi - here is a snip:

"For what it’s worth, I prefer not to focus on “my gender vs. your gender”. I’d rather make a concerted effort to discover and develop my own spiritual gifts in light of my relationship with Christ, and use those gifts in ways He might lead. I’d also prefer to help you discover your spiritual gifts and develop them in ways He might lead."
- - - - -

I think that is where I find myself and there have just been a lot of posts where it seems women are 'fighting' to 'get in with men' - blogging, etc - to be like men - and it hits me a certain way. Granted we all have different callings - I am sure there are others here who are on my path as far as that goes and my sharing might help me connect with them.

Do you think there is a mindset to overcome past biases or to become like men? (or both?)

I know I also will learn and grow from reading, but moreso from interacting with you all, so again, thanks for commenting back. :)

And its Janice. Doxallo is my screen name/business name which I registerd at blogger long ago. Didn't want to change it and keep track of 2.

I just signed up for the Retreat today! I am excited and a bit anxious -- I'm no great theologian and wonder if I'm in over my head...I just know God has recently been calling me to dig into 'womanhood' especially related to emergence, so I'm comin'.

(another long winded post....sorry, seems I just can't be short these days)
At 8/28/2006 03:37:00 PM, Sue Densmore

I don't think anyone here is advocating that we become like the men. I think there exists frustration over the fact that not all women are allowed to cultivate and utilize their gifts in the way they feel led. There are people who take two verses out of context and use them to shut down an entire gender.

Incidentally, there are great resources on the gender equality debate over at Christians for Biblical Equality (www.cbeinternational.org).
At 8/28/2006 04:04:00 PM, Janice

Thanks Sue.

I'd love to explore that more....I am sure as I continue reading along here I'll get a better feel for the issues some of the rest of you face. I am guessing there is a lot of background already shared amongst many of you, not to mention a better feel for the overall 'emegence' thing.

I suppose since I am not called to fly in the face of many of the norms you (collective) fight, I don't relate well to (or have a good command of) the actuality of it - the reality of it. I hope to learn more as time goes on.

I recently came upon the website you linked too - thanks for the reminder, I didn't have a chance to read there yet.

As a side note: Is there anywhere on the blog where people provided intro.s? Would be nice to get a feel for who all is posting here, backgrounds, locations, callings, etc.
At 8/28/2006 04:07:00 PM, Unknown

Janice,
I appreciate the dialog. A while back there was a little "bump" we don't need to revisit, but some of this venting, may still be after effects. If there are things that you are pondering, write about them. We have had many different topics. Maybe because it is "Emerging Women" the gender topic stays a constant, but there have certainly been other topics and we should have more.
I really wish I could attend the Retreat and hope in the near future to have that opportunity. I am in Arizona, and so far, haven't had anything relatively close. I hope all who get to attend have a great time and report back to those of us that can't make it.
At 8/31/2006 05:48:00 PM, caz

Hi Janice,
your posts have challenged me to think through some issues a bit more. Thanks for visiting my blog too.

You wrote:
"I don't feel a need to compete with white men or any men, God created me as a woman for a purpose and if those men can't figure it out - their loss!"

And Sue responded that it's more about men using a couple verses to squash women.

I guess I would take it one step beyond that and say that for me, and I am sure some others, this issue permeates our communities and conversations in undercurrent ways that keep women from even knowing they were created for a purpose beyond the roles of wife/mother. I never had people in church tell me I couldn't participate in a ministry because I was a girl/woman, but I grew up knowing that none the less. It wasn't an issue for me, I just didn't even seek out those opportunities or have those expectations of being used by God, except within the context of a relationship with a man and his ministry.

In the day to day living of life in church and community, this is not a headline issue or a determined act of oppression by men, in my opinion. I think it is simply evil oppression at work within the church in silent ways, such as numbing peoples hearts and minds to God's love, blinding their eyes to giftedness, closing their ears to the cries of the few that speak up. And it isn't just women...how many artistic or men of weaker stature are given opportunities to lead? How many singles are called upon to lead? How many children are listened to and orphans cared for?

I am happy to have found this community to dialogue with about woman's place as the church evolves (or reforms, or emerges). I would encourage Janice and others that are convinced of your purposeful creation to begin speaking into the lives of the young women around you. They need to hear your voices and observe your life as you live out your calling.
At 9/01/2006 01:40:00 PM, Anonymous

Friends, having recently viewed the Truth Project (and being sceptical beforehand), I was curious to others' reactions to it, so I googled, and here I am. I watched the 13 hours of material as fast as I could as it had the ring of truth. The Truth had a dramatic, postive effect on me as it caused me to have great compassion for my fellow humans for they are all eternal beings and there are no mere mortals out there. Through it God, gave me a desire to stop focusing on myself and reach out to those who are hurting and need a Saviour.

Give it a chance and watch one hour of it. It will ring in your heart and mind.
At 10/08/2006 09:43:00 PM, Anonymous

This is my first time on this blog. I was surprised to read the comments that were so negative towards FOF and The Truth Project. I haven't listened to all the material on the truth project website, but that which I've heard sounds very Biblically based. I'm a part of a church plant that started four years ago and I think would be considered part of the emergent church. What is it about the Truth Project that you found to be so offensive? Is it just because the majority of teachers are white male or is it the actual content? I'm really curious to know. I'm a little uncomfortable with the tone of some of the posts I've read towards men in general. I don't care if the panel is all white men if what they are saying is true. Maybe it is because I haven't experienced such inequality as it seems many of you have. However, our goal shouldn't be to exalt ourselves. If Jesus is being glorified in what is said and done, does it matter if a man or woman is teaching, leading or whatever? I do believe women should be allowed to use their God-given gifts as freely as men, but I'm in a church where I am free to do just that.

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