Thought this video was interesting. I would have been happier though if it had included images of women of other ethnicities and cultures.
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Tuesday, May 01, 2007
Women in Christianity
posted by Miz Melly at 7:34 AM
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17 Comments:
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At 5/01/2007 01:45:00 PM,
AnneIt struck me as a bit patronizing. What was the purpose? Why do I need to hear negative remarks that people have made in the past and present about women? How awful is it for the American suburban looking women in the video who seem well-clothed, well-groomed and well fed? Perhaps this helps those who have grown up in a conservative church environment and have felt "less than" growing up - do you think?
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At 5/01/2007 02:55:00 PM,
Miz MellyCool comments. I agree with Anne that it is a bit patronising. I think though that it was made in response to a video that Mark Driscoll contributed to a church planting conference which was taken as a sleight against women working in the church. He made comments about church planting needing the right *man*, his focus was on encouraging men to come to church but it felt very exclusive. But nothing new really from this particular pastor who just seems to have a heart for men rather than women.
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I saw this on Jen's blog yesterday (she made the video), and blogged about it myself today. Agreed that it could have included a more diverse group of women. Jen actually made the video before the Mark Driscoll hoo-ha, for a course she has been studying. I think a few people have blogged about the video - including Monkfish Abbey, TSK etc which has led people to believe that it was a response to Mark's video. You can read more about it on Jen's site if you're interested - http:mytrueself.typepad.com
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At 5/01/2007 09:48:00 PM,
JulieYes, diversity would have been nice. But if she had to keep it legal she could only use photos she(or her friends) had taken or images in the public domain - it might have been difficult to fly around the globe to take pictures for a homework assignment.
I personally don't care if it is white middleclass wellfed americans being shown - sexism hurts them too. And to know the truth that the history of our faith is marred by the hatred of women and that its still an issue in some churches is an exercise in truthtelling that I personally think needs to occur. -
Thank you for linking to my video.
I hear you about the importance of showing other ethnicities/ages. And, if I had known so many people would see it, I would have included those :-) It was really a very personal reflection, based on my own experience, which happens to be white. And, the whole point of the video is the last screen...talking about how young women today just dont know what Christian women of the past have done. Thats why its mostly all pictures of young women - except for the 3rd to last screen, the last woman shown, an older woman as if she is looking back on what could be different.
The video was made for a class on the history of women in Christianity and one of my reflections is how much of that information is just not known. -
Anne,
Im sorry you found it patronizing. I honestly didn't intend it that way.
The whole point of it was to have a handful of my friends and people who read my blog share in the experience of what its like to process those words, especially in the context of a class I have been taking on the history of women in Christianity. It caught on to be bigger than just my cicle of friends, and then it got linked to Driscoll's video....and now people call my very gut-wrenching expression of my emotions patronizing. That's the internet I guess :-) But, I do want to assue you that's not what its about. -
At 5/02/2007 05:15:00 AM,
Miz MellyThanks so much for responding and clarifying, Jennifer. It's great to hear the history behind it understand it as a personal response. Thanks for sharing it. I'm sorry if I misled people by saying it was made in response to Driscoll's comments. I read that on TSK. I see he has also clarified the point.
Here's praying for you as you continue your path and desire to build up and encourage young women. -
At 5/02/2007 08:02:00 AM,
LindaI loved it and could personally identify with it. It speaks to the white, middle class conservative Christian culture I was a part of for so many years. Thanks, Jennifer.
Incidentally, the Christian women in economically-deprived situations are a completely different kettle of fish. I think it would have been very difficult to depict their oppression without attempting a completely different video. Maybe that is something that will be taken up as a project at another time by someone else. -
At 5/02/2007 02:16:00 PM,
AnneJen, I only saw your video here, so I had no other exposure to it being related to Driscoll, etc. It was well executed, and if it was a personal statement of your own, then that's a whole different ball of wax. I thought that perhaps it had been made by a church to show to women. And that seemed a bit patronizing.
And Jen, really, maybe this just isn't the environment for me. I wasn't brought up a conservative Christian (or much of a Christian at all), and I don't have a passion for championing the cause of women in leadership in the church. And please know that it's not that I don't think women should be in leadership; I think it's a given that they should be.
Anne -
Jennifer,
I reallly enjoyed the video. Thank you both for creating it and for sharing your heart with us here.
I think one of the most difficult things for us as women when discussing women is the fact that it's all pretty personal. I think Jennifer found expression for her experience in creating this video. For me this expression was particularly meaningful because the actions of some within my faith community are so tied up in the negative remarks shown in the video, but they don't even realize it.
Anne, I think you do belong here. We're all going to have different perspective and things that hit us differently. That's just the way of it. I think it's amazing that women in leadership is a given for you and thus not a passion. For me, women in leadership is not a given and thus is a passion. To have you as part of the conversation balances me, and hopefully at time I provide the same.
Blessing to all of you.
Amy -
At 5/03/2007 01:31:00 PM,
AnneAmy, thanks for thinking I belong here, even if women in leadership isn't my passion. :) I can understand being on your side of the fence, and back in the 70s I was certainly with you! I hang out online (and sometimes offline) with several African-American Christian women. I've never heard them talk about women in leadership, and yet I've seen such powerful examples of leadership from them, both inside their church and in their families and communities. I wonder if this is a topic being discussed among black Christian women? I'll have to ask a few friends when I have time.
Okay, I'm talking to myself now...
I agree that it will have been further enhanced with more diverse faces.
It was very moving though, thanks for sharing it.
Amie