|
|
Labels: Theology
¤ Permalink ¤
At 9/23/2006 07:52:00 AM, 
Miz Melly
I see the world as having darkness and light and that disneyfying Satan and demons as creatures intent on mischief and chaos, while on one level can be helpful, on another can belittle and dismiss the evident power of evil.
I do believe in Angels so I guess it would be logical to believe in Fallen Angels, who have as much passion in thwarting God's purposes as Her Messengers have in making sure His will comes about.
I've personally stopped talking about 'Satan' and I've started talking about The Darkness, because it helps me to think of my life as a follower of Christ as an injection of Light and the Church as a movement of Light and it's an image that is very strong. A candle in a dark room has incredible power. A 100 watt light bulb even more so.
Don't know if that's helpful, relevant....
The best thing that the emergent philosophy has done for me is to help me to let go of my need to know. 25 years ago I spent tons of time trying to figure out how evil worked because it scared me more than my faith comforted. This question really made me pause. What do I believe about Satan and how evil works in the world? I guess I believe the same thing I always did. He is active in our world. In fact this world is his. BUT Evil’s power is limited by the Three in One who love us more than we can ever imagine. Today, I choose to focus on the love and the light (I love that Melanie), on how God is redeeming the evil. Do I deny its existence? Not for a minute. As my faith in God grows however, my thoughts are being drawn to God and my fears are being put to rest by that faith.
I am curious to hear how God is working in other’s lives on this subject too. What say you ladies?
At 9/23/2006 10:09:00 AM, Helen
Like soldiermom, I let go of the 'need to know' and my focus is on 'results' or, in Christianese 'fruit'.
The problem with thinking about Satan and demons as personal beings - even if it's true that they are - is that that can be rather scary and can mislead us as to the best way to defeat evil.
I don't really believe "Go away Satan" is effective. I think we have to go through the hard work of resisting temptation and building character. Which is essentially going to be the same whether evil comes from personified evil beings or not.
At 9/24/2006 09:03:00 AM, kpjara
I would interject that in attempts to 'water down' the evil that is Satan and the demons, I believe one would make themselves more vulnerable to satanic/demonic attack.
I think by choosing to call the enemy darkness as opposed to the prince of the earth, as described in the Bible, we actually discount the overcoming power of Christ against this very real enemy and his league of demons.
I am only a visitor here, though I visit daily...just thought I'd throw that out there.
At 9/24/2006 02:08:00 PM, Helen
I think by choosing to call the enemy darkness as opposed to the prince of the earth, as described in the Bible, we actually discount the overcoming power of Christ against this very real enemy and his league of demons.
I don't see why that need necessarily be so.
Why would we need Christ's power more to fight a personal evil being than we need his power to fight the 'sin that so easily entangles'?
This is my take. . .
I was in Trinidad this summer on a 12 day missions trip. You can feel the spiritual oppression. People actually will sell their souls and worship idols and kill animals in sacrifices. Those who’ve sold their souls have to be exorcized and demons come out. You don’t realize how much light and Christian influence there is in the U.S. until you leave!
Having said that, Satan is not God’s equal opposing antithesis. He is a created being. God is supreme. The absence of God is evil, not the opposite of him in a see saw kind of way.
I think I agree with C.S. Lewis – here’s a loose paraphrase-- He said Satan would like for us to think of him a lot to or to underestimate him. Finding balance in our view of him I think is the wisest route.
I’ve also found as my intimacy grows with God, I see him more as a protective Father in whose chest I can cuddle in, and this helps a good deal when we think about evil and the spiritual battles raging in the unseen world.
At 9/24/2006 06:52:00 PM, Unknown
I have been dealing with "my" views of this recently, along with some other ideas. I believe that evil is a very real presence, and that darkness is there. In what context, I am not so sure I want to name. I agree with some other comments that I am not talking about "Satan" in the same context anymore. That may and probably will change. I have some family members that have spent most of there lives focused on "regular deliverance" from the "taunting demons". To be honest, what always bothered me, was it seemed like an overwhelming focus on the presence of evil and demons, moreso than on Christ. Now, I tend to feel that evil exists, and there will be temptation, but I hope my focus stays on Jesus and Love.
A couple books I have started to read
The Origin of Satan by Elaine Pagels
The History of Hell by Alice K. Turner
The little that I have read so far, it at least opens the mind to the way ancient cultures and religions, besides Christianity believed in relation to Hell and Satan.
At 9/25/2006 07:12:00 AM, kpjara
This is my question: If I don't call cancer...cancer (just deny it's existence), does it go away or make it less deadly? Our enemy is real (at least from what I've seen) and by calling him 'darkness' to give peace to our mind doesn't take away the evil that he is. Why would Jesus give us power over demons if we didn't NEED it?
I also think of our spiritual armor and the lessons I have had in that indicate that one piece alone is for defense, the rest are to put the enemy weapons of offense. WHy would we even have armor if we don't have very real enemies?
THis is one of those subjects that my current denomination won't even discuss for 'fear' of giving satan more power. My goal is NOT to offend anyone with loose terminology I too am just trying to process information and find truth.
At 9/25/2006 09:22:00 PM, Charlotte Wyncoop
It seems to me that my question would be somewhat like FTM's, is the complacency about Satan in the U.S. a ploy to let him work undisturbed?
When I was newbie "saved Christian" I was very into spiritual warfare and saw it everywhere. Eventually, I decided I was delusional and quit looking and decided to focus on Christ, because I didn't want to give too much power to Satan.
One of the problems I have with the "church" that I've experienced is that it is rather powerless compared to what the new testament describes. I'm powerless compared to what the new testament describes. And the people that I've seen that claim to have power, don't seem quite genuine to me.
I hope I haven't offended anyone, but I think the question of Satan is also tied to the power of the Holy Spirit question. And where is it?
At 9/25/2006 09:39:00 PM, Charlotte Wyncoop
Just found the context that Shoshana asked the question and it got me thinking more. Where does our responsibility end and Satan's power begin? I would tend to think that for believers, Satan only has power that believers are willing to give him - knowingly or unknowingly. For non-believers who don't have the Spirit of truth to test his lies against, does that hold true as well? And how does that hold in tension against the description in Romans of gentiles who have a law written in their hearts? Does Satan only have the power that is submitted to him because of our "free will"? Does he have no power of his own?
At 9/27/2006 10:21:00 PM, Charlotte Wyncoop
FTM (or anyone else interested), speaking of light...if you get a chance check out the greek in Luke 11. My husband just did a message on that passage and we were having a blast cross referencing the different greek words used for light and sight, etc. The nuances are completely and utterly lost in the english. (We were using Blueletterbible.com and Kittle's Dictionary for the greek.)
That's a fabulous question. If you sit down and read through one of the gospels (especially Mark), you see Jesus teaching, healing, and casting out demons. Almost more demons than healing. What in the world do we do with that today?
Personally, I want to think that it's not for real. Horror movies freak me out, and I'm sure I would be really messed up for a long time after seeing one of Jesus' "cast out the demon while the child is shrieking and being violently thrown to the ground" miracles.
But I can't find a good way to explain it away, either. PLEASE let me know if you come up with a good loophole on this one, because I don't WANT to live in a universe inhabited by devils with some real power.
Maybe the influence of satan/evil is like a current, and our choice to do good instead of evil is like swimming upstream against it.